Donald McCalla (Bishop for the South West of England) Interview

Interviewer: Sue

Organisation: Pastor for local church in Gloucester and Bishop for Southwest of England.

Date: 09/2/12

Interview: 0:30

DONALD: Err, hello Sue and Hallie. My name is Donald Whiter McCalla, um, I’m the Pastor for this local church in Gloucester and I’m also the, the senior Bishop for the region of South West of England.

NAME: Well, having just had a very quick chat to you its so nice to meet you after our previous little discussions on the phone. Thank you for joining our project. You came when you were 9 years old; tell us your story from there?

DONALD: No, no, I came when I was 18 years old.

NAME: Oh…

DONALD: Start again.

HALLIE: Thank you.

DONALD: Ok, carry on.

SUE: How old were you when you came to England?

DONALD: I was 18 years old.

SUE: Ok.

DONALD: Yeah.

SUE: So you finished your schooling.

DONALD: Yes I finished schooling in Jamaica up to 16…

SUE: And what happened, what happened when you arrived here, where do you arrive and what happened next?

DONALD: Um, I came into Gatwick Airport.

SUE: Umm.

DONALD: My two brothers that live here before me came to meet me and take me home to Birmingham and I stayed in Birmingham for 21 years.

SUE: Wow.

DONALD: And then I moved to Gloucester in 1982, October.

SUE: Were you working all the time in Birmingham and if so what were you doing?

DONALD: Err, I’ve been in this country 49 years at this present time and I’ve been working 49 years. Always work, I’ve never been unemployed.

SUE: All sorts of things?

DONALD: I started out on a building site…

SUE: Yeah.

DONALD: And I went into a factory for about a few years. Then one of my friend who is a chemist he used to let us go and learn to drive the coaches. So I went to learn to drive the coaches, I was 21 years by then…

SUE: Wow.

DONALD: And I started some coach driving, part-time, coach driving.

SUE: Um, great.

DONALD: And that time I was in the Church and I was doing some training and some different things in the Church, working through different department’s youth leading and so on.

SUE: What sort of Church was it?

DONALD: Same Church, Church of god of prophesy, I’ve always been interested in Church god of prophesy and after I finished my coach driving err, I went to apply for a job on the buses, so I went on the buses.

SUE: Still in Birmingham?

DONALD: Still in Birmingham.

SUE: Great, um.

DONALD: For10 years on the buses.

SUE: Right.

DONALD: I left the buses again…

SUE: Were you driving?

DONALD: Yeah.

SUE: Yeah?

DONALD: And conducting. I left the buses and I start doing, I leave the buses because I was asked to Pastor a Church in 1976…

SUE: Ah.

DONALD: It mean it was too much work for me…

SUE: Yes.

DONALD: Too much commitment…

SUE: Yes, yes.

DONALD: So I leave the buses and start driving the coaches again…

SUE: Right.

DONALD: On a part-time basis…

SUE: Part-time.

DONALD: So that I can pass for the Church, it was a small Church. So I could pass for the Church and at the same time err…

SUE: He’s a busy man the Pastor; he’s just going to take a phone call.

DONALD: Might be important?

SUE: Do you want to get it?

DONALD: No.

SUE: You can we’ve stopped the tape.

DONALD: Is he?

SUE: So tell me the Church that your Pastor of now…

DONALD: Yes.

SUE: Here now in err, Treadworth.

DONALD: That’s right.

SUE: How did this start when you were in Birmingham, tell us about the Church?

DONALD: This Church was started by the same lady that was here, in her house and I move it to a place call err, Greyfriars in town and that was started by her husband.

SUE: What her name, this lady?

DONALD: Iris, Iris, Iris Brian.

SUE: Iris Brian.

DONALD: Right. And then from there is a, they moved from that place and they came from here and the building was purchased by that gentleman over there called Mr Lewis, who is a Pastor…

SUE: Right, right.

DONALD: Who’s now deceased.

SUE: Right.

DONALD: And then after that it was taken over by the next Minister, who’s Mr Bartley.

SUE: Right.

DONALD: He’s also deceased. And then they wanted to send him into Africa.

SUE: Ah.

DONALD: So he went into Africa for 8 years. So when they were sending him to Africa…

SUE: Um.

DONALD: They asked me to come and take this Church over, so I come and take it over from him.

SUE: And you were in Birmingham at that time or?

DONALD: Yes. I was in Birmingham…

SUE: Right.

DONALD: So I came from Birmingham to take this Church over.

SUE: Right.

DONALD: And another one in Stroud.

SUE: Right.

DONALD: So I took 2 Churches over in 1982.

SUE: So you gave up driving the buses and coaches…

DONALD: That’s right.

SUE: And you concentrated full time on your fate.

DONALD: Exactly.

SUE: Would you like to describe to us your training or your faith to us so that people can understand what your Church stands for in, in, in easy to understand terms obviously.

DONALD: Ok. Our church is a Pentecostal Church err, we believe in a full conversion err, in mercy and water. Err, be a member of the Church by covenant and anybody can be a member of the Church, it doesn’t matter whether your Black, White, Asian whatever, because all Churches is a multi cultural Church and it has um, may, well, its about 40, 140 countries around the world.

SUE: Really?

DONALD: Yeah.

SUE: Wow.

DONALD: Were in Russia, were in Africa, were in Israel, were in Germany, were in France…

SUE: Great.

DONALD: Were in America, were in Australia, were all over the world.

SUE: Right.

DONALD: So it’s a, it’s not a local Church. It’s just…

SUE: Multi national.

DONALD: Yeah. So we do a training by, we do a lot of practical training, where we also do a lot of err, in house training.

SUE: Right.

DONALD: And also we do other courses as well. So I started early in my early days by doing…

SUE: Yes.

DONALD: Working with somebody in the Church.

SUE: Right.

DONALD: And I do a lot of practical training.

SUE: Was anyone on your family deeply religious or…

DONALD: Yes, Mum.

SUE: Were you influenced by someone?

DONALD: My Mum was.

SUE: Um, um.

DONALD: And my brother who is now 76 years old, he’s been a minister since he was 16 years old.

SUE: Wow.

DONALD: And he still Pastor in a Church…

SUE: Yes.

DONALD: And the biggest Church in Wolverhampton now.

SUE: Oh really.

DONALD: Yeah.

SUE: Wow.

DONALD: Err, so I was more or less influenced by my Mum…

SUE: Yes.

DONALD: And my brothers.

SUE: Yes.

DONALD: My two brothers.

SUE: Yes.

DONALD: So that’s how I actually became to be a part of the Church.

SUE: When you came was this Church like this when you first arrived here in this area in Tradworth?

DONALD: Yes it was. We tried to decorate a little bit from time to time but we haven’t done any alteration since I’ve been here.

SUE: So it’s possibly a late Victorian building that was a Methodist Church?

DONALD: It was a Methodist Church and I would say it’s got to be about 100 years old this building yeah, but it’s, we tried to keep it up the best we can.

SUE: Yes.

DONALD: Yeah.

SUE: Its, its very welcoming with the red of the seats and the warm pinks of the wall. I see you’ve got, is that an electric piano or electric organ?

DONALD: Yes, electric.

SUE: And what is there here in way of a choir?

DONALD: Err; our choir is not very big around this, at this time.

SUE: Um.

DONALD: We’ve got a little youth choir…

SUE: Um.

DONALD: We’ve got a nice little youth band as well, all play different instruments.

SUE: Um.

DONALD: We’ve, we’ve got an adult choir…

SUE: Great.

DONALD: Which is not very big.

SUE: Um.

DONALD: They do sing well.

SUE: I bet.

DONALD: But we’ve got a, a Jam choir as well, like um, like we got in the Cathedral last week.

SUE: Yes, tell us about that?

DONALD: It was, it was, there was 6 Churches together who joined together.

SUE: Right.

DONALD: And so we’ve got 5 of those Churches now come together and we entitled it Churches for change and the reason why we do it, Churches for change is that were trying to tackle some things in the community with the police and all different people, were trying to work in that area now, trying to change and err, help with some of the hills that we got in society and that’s why we call it Churches for change. So we all, yeah, working with the police, were working on the umbrella of Churches of change.

SUE: Do you have leaders that meet with the constabulary here; are you one of those people that you can talk directly to the chief inspectors in Gloucester or the police station in Teadworth?

DONALD: We have, we have 2 people but from time to time err, I meet with the police…

SUE: Right.

DONALD: And I go to the Cheltenham police headquarters sometime for meetings.

SUE: Yeah.

DONALD: And if the police got a problem…

SUE: Um.

DONALD: They first inform us, some of the leaders.

SUE: Yes.

DONALD: So if this riot for arguments sake…

SUE: Yes.

DONALD: Continue…

SUE: Yes.

DONALD: Were be out there with the police.

SUE: Yes.

DONALD: Were be meeting and talking with the police and we try to get the police to come to the church as well on occasions.

SUE: I understand.

DONALD: Yeah, just coming here so people can…

SUE: See.

DONALD: See them and know who we are…

SUE: Yeah.

DONALD: And so were, were trying to work along with the police as well.

SUE: Yes. When you first came here what year was that?

DONALD: What in this country?

SUE: In this Church.

DONALD: Oh, 1982.

SUE: Right, what was your first impressions of this area when you were walking around and getting to grips to where you landed?

DONALD: Err; the fact is that err, I come from Birmingham…

SUE: Um.

DONALD: It wasn’t any different from what I know in Birmingham because I live in Answick…

SUE: Yeah.

DONALD: So first and for most…

SUE: Yes.

DONALD: And then Answick was a multi cultural place…

SUE: Um.

DONALD: Loads of Asians…

SUE: Yeah.

DONALD: African, West Indians, different people.

SUE: Um.

DONALD: So when I came here it wasn’t any different…

SUE: Um.

DONALD: Except this is a smaller place…

SUE: Yes.

DONALD: Not as many Afro Caribbean’s…

SUE: No.

DONALD: Not as many Asians.

SUE: Um.

DONALD: So it was some place that we thought at least…

SUE: Um.

DONALD: Nice to work with people.

SUE: Um.

DONALD: I like to work in a mix multitude of people.

SUE: When you were walking around the streets did you find them any different from an inner city area that you’ve walked in before?

DONALD: Not at all.

SUE: Not really?

DONALD: Err; I try to be very friendly with people.

SUE: Yeah.

DONALD: And so you find people to be quite friendly.

SUE: Yes.

DONALD: So I find it as a very welcoming place.

SUE: Good.

DONALD: Yeah.

SUE: Good. And your congregation are they mix nationally, mix culture or are they mostly from certain groupings or?

DONALD: Well we’ve got, err, mostly Jamaicans here.

SUE: Yeah.

DONALD: But we have different people from different place.

SUE: Good.

DONALD: We’ve got people from India…

SUE: Yes.

DONALD: Err, Sri Lanka.

SUE: Um, um.

DONALD: Err, mainly Indian and Sri Lankan.

SUE: Yes.

DONALD: We used have people here from the Philippines…

SUE: Wow.

DONALD: We used have people here from the ah, err,

SUE: Mauritius?

DONALD: No, we used have people here from the South Africa.

SUE: Ah, ha.

DONALD: You know, but their gone…

SUE: Yeah.

DONALD: At this present time.

SUE: Yeah, yeah.

DONALD: We used to have a number of White people…

SUE: Yeah.

DONALD: Who most of them is left.

SUE: They left.

DONALD: Yeah. And the lady who actually took them away, they started up with her, she got nobody left now. They’ve all gone from her.

SUE: Ah.

DONALD: So we’ve only got a few White people now.

SUE: Because of course Gloucester was recruiting Jamaican and Caribbean labour when London certainly was, way; way back to the late 50’s, 60’s.

DONALD: Right.

SUE: And it was the same in Gloucester. But unlike London there, there are accounts of a Mother, a Jamaican Mother wheeling her little baby boy. She left the baby boy in the big Pramulator in those days outside a shop she went into in Gloucester and when she came out there was a crowd around the pram because seeing a person let alone a baby from a country such as Jamaica; they’ve never seen an enfant like this before.

DONALD: Ok.

SUE: And they adored the baby and the lady was pleasantly surprised but its quite new, it really didn’t start excepting if you like until the late 50’s, early 60’s and now I’m hoping that the recent troubles on Tuesday evening are just a hiccup. But how can you help with what you were saying, you’ve got Delroy’s starting his…

DONALD: Um, um.

SUE: Youth activities that’s funded by the constabulary…

DONALD: Right.

SUE: He was on Radio Gloucestershire this morning. How can you all work together?

DONALD: Well, we will have to see what he is doing.

SUE: Um.

DONALD: And if we’ve been invited to come and work with him.

SUE: I hope so, yeah.

DONALD: I still don’t know what he’s doing and I, I, I’m not even sure who Delroy is?

SUE: Ah, he’s a youth leader, um, and he’s quite a well known character. He and err, his organisation, youth group I think, I don’t know what the name is. They’ve got funding from the Gloucester constabulary…

DONALD: Ok.

SUE: And his idea is to run lots more active, active, well, vocational, leisure sport but to engage youngsters in another way…

DONALD: Right.

SUE: Rather than they just come and hang out and listen to some music.

DONALD: Ok.

SUE: And he working very closely, the police are in a sort of back off role but there is that recognition that in Barton especially after the small err, riot and, and fire of Tuesday evenings something urgently needs to be done and the people that were talking to um, just today because its only just happened, and there all saying the same thing, that we’d love youth to be more engaged, maybe, Maybe, you know, the schooling changed and maybe the church is going to work together. If we all work together hopefully we can, we can make a better community and a better society…

DONALD: Um.

SUE: I wondered how your church might feel that they can help either through faith or maybe through practical activity.

DONALD: Well, the fact is we got a youth group in the local Church…

SUE: Um.

DONALD: We’ve just finished 6 days of vocational Bible school…

SUE: Right.

DONALD: Where we, this place was full of kids for 6 days…

SUE: Brilliant.

DONALD: And Saturday we’re take them down the road for a bouncy castle…

SUE: Yeah.

DONALD: And yeah, some more outdoor activity.

SUE: Um.

DONALD: Ah, again I need to see these youth groups and what their actual ethos…

SUE: Yes, yes.

DONALD: Are because we don’t only teach children the rights…

SUE: Yeah.

DONALD: They, they need to be taught, responsibility…

SUE: Right.

DONALD: And some of them out there, I just thought tell them what their rights are

SUE: Yes.

DONALD: And tell them to do this and to do that…

SUE: Yes.

DONALD: But in Church…

SUE: Yes.

DONALD: We teach children…

SUE: Yes.

DONALD: Their rights with responsibility.

SUE: Yes.

DONALD: And if they don’t know their responsibility and just rights…

SUE: Yeah.

DONALD: That’s where you’re getting things up.

SUE: Yes.

DONALD: Getting, everybody owe them a living, everybody owe them something…

SUE: Um.

DONALD: And they’ve got nothing to contribute.

SUE: Um.

DONALD: In society.

SUE: Um.

DONALD: So I think in Church we need to be doing is to teach children…

SUE: Um,

DONALD: Basic facts of life…

SUE: Um.

DONALD: Responsibility, rights, privileges, respect for people…

SUE: Um.

DONALD: Respect for peoples property and then love for god.

SUE: Yes.

DONALD: They need to understand why there here and…

SUE: Love their self.

DONALD: Their purpose. Yes, because that after they have to love themselves…

SUE: Yes.

DONALD: And if we can teach children that..

SUE: Yes.

DONALD: And then we can win.

SUE: Yes.

DONALD: But, what people need to understand that money is not the answer to this problem.

SUE: Yes.

DONALD: Understand.

SUE: Yes.

DONALD: A lot of…

SUE: Materialism.

DONALD: Materialism. Now everybody want everything.

SUE: Um.

DONALD: Our children want the latest…

SUE: Now.

DONALD: Jeans, the latest boots…

SUE: Um.

DONALD: The latest everything and they want it know whether their parents can afford it or not.

SUE: Um.

DONALD: Children need to be taught that they can only have what they can afford.

SUE: What they work for.

DONALD: What they, well not actually what they work for some in some case but they have to, like when my daughter was growing up she got to cut the lawn…

SUE: Yeah.

DONALD: For some pocket money.

SUE: Yeah.

DONALD: Alright.

SUE: Um.

DONALD: She had to do little things…

SUE: Um.

DONALD: And she’d get the money.

SUE: Yes.

DONALD: And children need to understand that they need to do some things as well…

SUE: Um.

DONALD: To earn their keeps.

SUE: Yes, yes.

DONALD: Yeah. So a lot of kids today just think, again it’s so sad they spoil them.

SUE: Um.

DONALD: Advert is one of the big problem.

SUE: Yes.

DONALD: And people borrow money to let kids feel happy.

SUE: Um.

DONALD: When my kids were growing up…

SUE: Um.

DONALD: I told them if I ant got it, you’re not going to have it.

SUE: Um.

DONALD: My son come from school, they go to school up the road, a big compressive school up the road and he…

SUE: What’s it called, do you know?

DONALD: It’s used to be called St Bridge, its called Central Technical College now. Err, my son come from school and he bring some, some games home…

SUE: Um.

DONALD: And I said where did you get that? I get it from my friend. Come on we’re going to your friends house. So I bring him back to his friend, ring the bell and a lady came out and I said sorry my lad bring this home from school and it belong to your son.

SUE: Alright.

DONALD: And I said I’m giving them back to you and she didn’t like it. I said, in that school you’ve got nearly, nearly a 1000 boys there…

SUE: Yeah.

DONALD: And everybody they seal things at that school and it’s terrible. They steal a uniform, they seal everything…

SUE: Yeah, yeah.

DONALD: So I said I don’t know where this thing come from…

SUE: Yeah.

DONALD: Ok, this was your son but you bought it for your son, so my son not have it in his house. What he don’t have, he don’t get…

SUE: Right

DONALD: But it…

SUE: Did she understand…

DONALD: She understand

SUE: What you were trying to say?

DONALD: She understand what I said.

SUE: Yeah.

DONALD: And since that day my lad he never bring nothing home.

SUE: No.

DONALD: Err, when I used to pass this Church at first, first…

SUE: Um.

DONALD: Err, sorry, I was in Birmingham first.

SUE: Um.

DONALD: I never get a full salary.

SUE: No?

DONALD: I used to make it up by the buses, by the coaches rather.

SUE: Yes, yeah.

DONALD: So I used to get, my kids used to get a free meals in school, since they’ve come to Gloucester it’s changed because my salary went up. So they could get at least, they pay for the things.

SUE: Alright.

DONALD: But my kids, my daughter now is 34 years old…

SUE: Um.

DONALD: And she said to me Daddy can I have saw if you can afford it?

SUE: Um.

DONALD: She always used the word, if you can afford it.

SUE: So she recognises the value…

DONALD: Yes.

SUE: Yeah.

DONALD: If I couldn’t afford it, she wouldn’t get it.

SUE: She wouldn’t have it, yeah.

DONALD: Yeah.

SUE: Yeah.

DONALD: And we tried to teach our children, you must live within your means.

SUE: Yes, yes.

DONALD: Understand. So I think as far as the riot is concerned…

SUE: Um.

DONALD: I think a lot of children are jumping on the bandwagon…

SUE: Yeah.

DONALD: And the funny thing about it, its not just unemployed people…

SUE: No.

DONALD: Its people that, that got a grudge for society…

SUE: Unfortunately.

DONALD: They have a chip on their shoulder.

SUE: Yeah.

DONALD: They want something else, so their gonna break in the stores and take what they can take away…

SUE: Yes, its frightening isn’t it.

DONALD: And it’s very frightening.

SUE: Um. But your faith helps doesn’t it?

DONALD: Well, my faith is all all that allow me to live a life.

SUE: Yeah.

DONALD: If I lose my faith I wouldn’t have nothing to live for.

SUE: Yeah, because there’s a lot of evil out there and it’s very easy through media and newspaper headlines to think that the whole world is bad, bad things are happening.

DONALD: No the world is not bad, its people. The whole universe is not bad.

SUE: Um.

DONALD: And any community you get into a community like Treadworth for arguments sake.

SUE: Um.

DONALD: There’s a lot of beautiful people that live in Treadworth.

SUE: Um.

DONALD: Of all the different strands of society.

SUE: Yes.

DONALD: There’s a lot of very good people.

SUE: Yes.

DONALD: But it’s a handful of people that spoil the situation.

SUE: There is.

DONALD: When we came to Gloucester first, err, not just when we come but there used to be a group of bad boys down there, mainly West Indian boys.

SUE: They didn’t go to that café ran by Les, The Barton?

DONALD: I’m not sure, I’m not sure but they used to of err; they used to congregate on Conduit Street…

SUE: Yeah.

DONALD: And we used to go along on a Saturday afternoon…

SUE: Um.

DONALD: And we used to talk with them. We used to talk with them and they said were not going to work for the White men.

SUE: Yeah.

DONALD: And we tried talk to them, talk to them and talk to them and show them no Black people are going to employ you, you know, and we, we managed to turn a lot of them people around, kids around.

SUE: Um.

DONALD: So what we really new, if there’s a Church we have to get on all fours and get out there and talk to children.

SUE: Yeah.

DONALD: You understand.

SUE: It all begins…

DONALD: It begin.

SUE: With school children.

DONALD: Yes but we need to understand that the associated does not always work with us.

SUE: Um.

DONALD: Because they want us to come on their terms of reference…

SUE: Um, um.

DONALD: And when we talk about god after, they don’t want to know. I mean that I with the probation office…

SUE: Um.

DONALD: And a few times and there was a place down, down there and they call the Barbican Centre.

SUE: Oh, yes.

DONALD: Where they do, err, try to motivate them…

SUE: Yes.

DONALD: And I was, I was picked up by a probation officer, took down to Barbican Centre…

SUE: Um.

DONALD: And there was a load of people in that there that was all messed up and he said to me I don’t want to hear about god, he said because a lot of the people in here, there Priest and if Church was so good why so many Priest get mixed up in drugs and alcohol. I said because there not really Christian…

SUE: Um.

DONALD: They might be religious but there not really Christians.

SUE: Um.

DONALD: If they were Christians and they were sticking to the word of god there not be drinking and getting themselves all mixed up. Well after that day I didn’t go back with them at all.

SUE: No?

DONALD: No because I told him I said I’m sorry but were in different wavelengths. I’ve got to use my skill and what I’ve got to offer.

SUE: Yes, yes.

DONALD: You can use your skill…

SUE: Yeah.

DONALD: And the fact that your failing in anyway…

SUE: Um.

DONALD: Is because your skill is not working. So if you want us to work either with young people…

SUE: Um.

DONALD: Or adult…

SUE: Um.

DONALD: We have to bring our god given gift…

SUE: Yes.

DONALD: And talents.

SUE: Right.

DONALD: And the word…

SUE: Um,

DONALD: And our faith.

SUE: Um.

DONALD: Into that sort of situation.

SUE: Spread the message.

DONALD: If we don’t do that, we can’t win nobody.

SUE: Powerful stuff and it’s good to here because you’re obviously a man of strong faith and…

DONALD: Yes.

SUE: As you say is, is your daily medicine.

DONALD: Exactly.

SUE: Tell us a little bit. Um, do you perform marriages or baptisms here?

DONALD: We do everything.

SUE: Alright.

DONALD: I do marriages…

SUE: Yes.

DONALD: I haven’t had a marriage here for a long time…

SUE: Right.

DONALD: Because most of the marriages, marriages is too big.

SUE: Yeah.

DONALD: The last one we should have had was in May but that didn’t come off. But we err, take them different places…

SUE: Right.

DONALD: Because most of the West Indian marriages are very big.

SUE: Yeah.

DONALD: On our 25th Wedding Adversary in a year, 6 weeks ago…

SUE: How many people?

DONALD: The place was full.

SUE: About 200?

DONALD: Not quite 200, but…

SUE: Yeah.

DONALD: But it was full. So…

SUE: That’s just family, family and friends?

DONALD: Family and friends, friends as well. So we do baptism as well but we do, we do baptism because this place is a, is a big pool over there…

SUE: This is what I was wondering so…

DONALD: Yeah.

SUE: Explain to us what is under there. Were, were in front of the water…

DONALD: That’s right.

SUE: And we’ve got um, beautiful flowers and we’ve got a beautiful um, burgundy hanging with gold crucifix and then on the floor in front of us, how big is this Pastor?

DONALD: It is, all of this place here is, is a pool but you have to allow for the steps to go down.

SUE: So it’s about what about 12 feet…

DONALD: Yeah.

SUE: In old money?

DONALD: Yeah, including the step.

SUE: And this stuff.

DONALD: You’ve got 5 piece of trap doors, we lift that all up.

SUE: Great.

DONALD: We’ve got water over there and a pipe running under the ground so we set, we just let the water down in there when we clean it out…

SUE: How amazing.

DONALD: And fill a little bit of water to about that, to about that, to about 3 and a half feet…

SUE: Really.

DONALD: With water.

SUE: Wow.

DONALD: And then we baptise adults in there.

SUE: Yes.

DONALD: So they come down here, walk in there…

SUE: They walk down the stairs?

DONALD: Yes.

SUE: You’re in the water?

DONALD: That’s right.

SUE: You’re in the water and then what happens?

DONALD: We immerse them.

SUE: Right. So it’s full immersion…

DONALD: Yes.

SUE: With their head underneath.

DONALD: Yes, full immersion.

SUE: And then you, you have them by the back and they come up.

DONALD: Exactly. We use words like err, upon conformation of your faith.

SUE: Right.

DONALD: Because we dare not baptise anybody who does not confess Jesus Christ.

SUE: Right.

DONALD: So if they confess Jesus Christ and they want to be baptised, we baptise them.

SUE: Right.

DONALD: So we have to do upon a continuation of your faith and I’ll baptise you…

SUE: Right.

DONALD: Under the father and the son of the wholly sprit and I baptise them…

SUE: Right.

DONALD: And they go back and change. Some go and rest, some go in the back and change.

SUE: And while this is going on, do the congregation sing or clap or…

DONALD: They sing, yeah.

SUE: They do sing?

DONALD: They sing and clap.

SUE: And what are they singing, traditional hymns?

DONALD: Err…

SUE: Or…

DONALD: Different things…

SUE: Right.

DONALD: Different things.

SUE: I’ll love, I’ll love to come and listen to this it sounds quite invigorating.

DONALD: It, it, it could be anything like the singing yeah.

SUE: Yeah, great.

DONALD: But we don’t baptise children.

SUE: No.

DONALD: We bless children.

SUE: Yes.

DONALD: So err, a child needs to be dedicated…

SUE: Yeah.

DONALD: We call it, we call it, a blessing or a dedication.

SUE: Yep.

DONALD: So we, the children come along the same as you do, we’ve got the name of the child; we call the name of the child out and we just, we, we, we, again dedicate them.

SUE: Right.

DONALD: But, but as Jesus did.

SUE: So you’re setting them…

DONALD: Yeah.

SUE: On a good pathway.

DONALD: Yeah, yeah. We take them up into our arms…

SUE: Yes.

DONALD: And pray for them…

SUE: Yes.

DONALD: And dedicate them to the Lord.

SUE: And is it from the cradle to the grave, if somebody dies…

DONALD: Yeah.

SUE: Do, can you, do a ceremony for a funeral or what happens?

DONALD: Well, the fact is that I’m a full pledge Bishop…

SUE: Wow.

DONALD: In the Church and err; I’m the senior Bishop for around here.

SUE: Right.

DONALD: I’ve been doing funerals every week except this week.

SUE: Is there a graveyard because I don’t know…

DONALD: The graveyard is by Answick Cemetery, not too far from here…

SUE: Ok.

DONALD: Down the road.

SUE: Ok.

DONALD: Yeah. But again I don’t use, I don’t do many funerals in this Church.

SUE: No.

DONALD: It’s not big enough.

SUE: Right.

DONALD: I use the church, the Catholic Church up the road…

SUE: Right.

DONALD: Not too far from here.

SUE: What’s it called?

DONALD: The Church of England…

SUE: Oh, right.

DONALD: Church.

SUE: What, do you know the name of it?

DONALD: St James.

SUE: Oh it’s St James, we’ve heard a lot about St James.

DONALD: I use St James, I use St Pauls, I use St Barnabus…

SUE: Yeah.

DONALD: Depending on where the person lives.

SUE: Great.

DONALD: And err…

SUE: That’s nice to hear.

DONALD: Yeah.

SUE: That’s good.

DONALD: I’ve got a very good relationship with the Meth, the Church of England Ministers. Err, I’ve done a few funerals 3 weeks ago, I go to the Melodist Church.

SUE: Right.

DONALD: Err…

SUE: Inter-faith, it works.

DONALD: And I use, I do funerals as well at The United Reform Church.

SUE: Good.

DONALD: So I’ve been doing funerals in all the Churches around here.

SUE: Yeah, yes, yes.

DONALD: I’ve got a very good relationship with all the ministers…

SUE: Good.

DONALD: And err, I just do funerals in the Church.

SUE: Well, I think your message if you have a message, now is the time to make it because your story is going to be archived.

DONALD: Is that right.

SUE: So that in the future, their going to hear this, this message.

DONALD: Well, my message is that err, I would like to see everybody turn to the Lord, Jesus Christ.

SUE: Um.

DONALD: We are in a difficult time, our financial situation is not just happening…

SUE: Um.

DONALD: Because the government of today is out of control, yes what were spending…

SUE: Um.

DONALD: But I would like to turn them back to the book of revelations…

SUE: Um.

DONALD: Err, with the script that tell us that in these days they could lose everything they’ve got in an hour and there going to cry…

SUE: Um.

DONALD: And there going to wale because everything is collapsing around them, are the ships are going to come to an end and everything like that. So what is happening is a full frontal of scriptures. The whole world is collapsing together financially…

SUE: Um.

DONALD: Because of scriptures.

SUE: Um.

DONALD: So what we need to do is to look to the Lord, Jesus Christ, he is the answer to our problems.

SUE: Um.

DONALD: And you can throw monies at these problems but it’s not going to solve it. When people get to find the Lord, Jesus Christ, they understand how to treat each others…

SUE: Yes, yes.

DONALD: Then they try and love the neighbours, they understand how to live together in a community and we’d escape the punishment that is to come…

SUE: Yes.

DONALD: Which is a vengeance…

SUE: Um, right.

DONALD: Of disobedience. So the government, we need to pray for government.

SUE: Yes.

DONALD: The bible says pray for government and Kings…

SUE: Yes.

DONALD: That they will, that we will live a peaceful and quite life…

SUE: Yes.

DONALD: And unless we can live in this sort of harmony were always going to have problems.

SUE: So working together, in harmony, in faith, is the way ahead.

DONALD: That’s the only way ahead.

SUE: Yes, thank you.

DONALD: It’s got to be.

SUE: Thank you very much, Pastor McCalla, it’s been very interesting talking to you.

DONALD: Nice talking to you.

SUE: All the greatest of luck in the future year.

DONALD: I wish you all best…

SUE: You’re doing a great job, thank you.

DONALD: I wish you gods blessing.

SUE: Thank you.

DONALD: Ok.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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